"PROTESTANTS AREN'T PROPER CHRISTIANS," SAYS POPE BENEDICT XVI
Friday, January 20, 2012 at 4:29PM NOTRadio This article was written by Simon Caldwell
DailyMail, UK
July 11, 2007.
Pope Benedict XVI declared yesterday that Christian denominations other than his own were not true churches and their holy orders have no value.
Protestant leaders immediately responded by saying the claims were offensive and would hurt efforts to promote ecumenism.
Roman Catholic-Anglican relations are already strained over the Church of England's plans to ordain homosexuals and women as bishops. The claims came in a document, from a Vatican watchdog which was approved by the Pope.
It said the branches of Christianity formed after the split with Rome at the Reformation could not be called churches "in the proper sense" because they broke with a succession of popes who dated back to St Peter.
As a result, it went on, Protestant churches have "no sacramental priesthood", effectively reaffirming the controversial Catholic position that Anglican holy orders are worthless.
The document claimed the Catholic church was the "one true church of Christ".
Pope Benedict's commitment to the hardline teaching comes days after he reinstated the Mass in Latin, which was sidelined in the 1960s in an attempt to modernise.
The timing of the announcement fuelled speculation that the pontiff - regarded as an arch-conservative before his election in 2005 - is finally beginning to impose his views on the Catholic Church.
The Vatican said it was restating the position set out by the then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger in 2000 in a document called Domine Jesus because theologians continued to misunderstand it.
At that time, Anglican leaders from around the world made their anger felt by snubbing an invitation to join Pope John Paul II as he proclaimed St Thomas More the patron saint of politicians.
Bishop Wolfgang Huber, head of the Evangelical Church in Germany, said the Vatican document effectively downgraded Protestant churches and would make ecumenical relations more difficult.
He said the pronouncement repeated the "offensive statements" of the 2000 document and was a "missed opportunity" to patch up relations with Protestants.
Article source here.
Reader Comments (156)
Gerald
The Queen Heaven is a pagan idol and your Pope kneels down before an idol and prays to it and then tell you he's praying to the Mary of the Bible. Your Pope is a Devil worshiper and the Antichrist, his power is given him by Satan the god of this world. You just keep in mind that you have been told and warned and will have no excuse when you stand before the Lord on the Day of Judgment. You are a pagan idolater and ever time you pray to a statue you are braking a commandment of God.
(Douay Old Testament 1609)
Deu_7:26 Neither shalt thou bring any thing of the idol into thy house, lest thou become an anathema, like it. Thou shalt detest it as dung, and shalt utterly abhor it as uncleanness and filth, because it is an anathema.
Your own Bible even tells you not to worship Idols!!!
What about the Child Raping Gerald and the massive cover ups? How do you refute that?
You are going have to answer to God on the Day of Judgment for passively condoning Child Rape in his name.
KJV Mat 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
Your guilty by association.
KJV 2Co_6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
Out of love for you I tell you this and out of love for you I will pray for you until you get saved and the Lord makes you a new creature
KJV 2Co_5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
May the Lord Jesus Christ convict you of your guilt by association. Amen
Gerald thank you for allowing us to see something of what you, as a Catholic believe. In answer to your questions to me: Page 2
“So in the passage about you wouldn't look to Paul and imitate him?
You don't accept any Church leadership? Heb.13.17”
As a woman,–the simple answer is -‘No. I don’t accept any ‘Church Leadership’ that I know is contrary to the word of God (guess this statement also answers your 1st question).
As a child, the Scriptures indicate –the need was first to obey my parents. Had I become a wife the Scriptures indicate the need would have been first to be obedient to my husband.
When they chose where to worship in all their some 19 moves of residency (within 5 different countries) my parents were interdenominational and only concerned with the answer to the question ‘was the true Gospel of the Christ of the word of God being preached ?’.
Today, I agree with similar statements on the board to the effect that most of the ‘main’ Protestant churches that I have had, or are having anything to do with, have compromised and fallen away from putting themselves under the authority of the Scriptures, to become adherents of the doctrines of men.
Thank you Chris, for the great reminders of Psalm 62 & Psalm 18:31 ‘For who is God, but YeHOVAH? And who is a rock, except our God?’ also your explanation of Gerald’s extra-ordinary understanding of Isaiah 22:21-25.
Thank you Bob, for your Page 2 Post 50 and the introduction to ‘a former Dominican Priest who converted to Protestantism and his testimony here: http://www.bereanbeacon.org/ ’ what a treasure-trove! Have only had time so far to listen to one of his discourses but that one ‘No_where_to_run.MP3’ in conjunction with Chris’s 21st broadcast, helped me to understand, your position Gerald, which is so –distant from the Christ you claim to accept.
Gerald do you mean to say that no Pope has ever claimed diety?
Also you ought to take note that in Matt. 16. five verses after verse 18, Jesus is telling Peter "Get thee behind me Satan: thou art an offense unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. From this we can understand how Peter was human and not the Rock the church was built upon but rather the confession he made which is "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." This is the rock Jesus will build his church upon. The church follows no man, but rather Christ who is the door, the shepherd of the sheep fold. If the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into a pit. Sadly the Pope and many other people are doing just that and leading many astray.
In 1Peter 5:1-3, Peter refers to himself as a fellow elder. That infers equality. There is no higher office than an elder. In Heaven there are 24 elders. Peter did not see himself as "Papa". We are to call no man our father. We have ONE Father and the Spirit in us cries out "Abba Father". James was the "President' of the Jerusalem council, not Peter, Acts 15. Peter was an apostle, one who was sent out to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ and a fellow elder among all the elders. This position of Pope is a result of the church falling into apostasy when Constantine moved the capital of the Roman Empire to Constantinople and left the Bishop of Rome to rise to power in Rome. The taking of state power is what caused the Pope and his friends to persecute and kill millions of believers. The only One that is to be exalted as the Head of the church is Christ. He is the Head and everyone else is in the body, including the Apostles and prophets and all elders. There is only one Head of the church and the Spirit is the only Vicar of Christ on earth. peace
"Gerald do you mean to say that no Pope has ever claimed diety? "
Nope he never did. Taken in context the only words I have seen Popes speak is in the same context tthat when Moses spoke or Joshua spoke and people did not listen it was as if God were speaking and God held the people accountable.
Read about the Old Testament protestants, Korah and Dathan in Numbers 16. When Moses spoke it was as if God spoke.
Duet 18
[18] I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brethren; and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him.
[19] And whoever will not give heed to my words which he shall speak in my name, I myself will require it of him.
I have never been told or come anywhere close to thinking that Popes are gods. This is just plain silly gibberish.
"Also you ought to take note that in Matt. 16. five verses after verse 18, Jesus is telling Peter "Get thee behind me Satan: thou art an offense unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. From this we can understand how Peter was human and not the Rock the church was built upon but rather the confession he made which is "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.""
Since when are rocks god? Peter needed a rebuking. He had some growing to do. Don't we all. This is a ridiculous arguement that someone can't be rebuked if they are a leader. Or God doesn't choose leaders that are less than perfect.
"he church follows no man, but rather Christ who is the door, the shepherd of the sheep fold. If the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into a pit. Sadly the Pope and many other people are doing just that and leading many astray."
So there are no leaders in the Church? Really? Heb 13:17 says otherwise. The Jews were called to follow Moses and Joshua as leaders. You have no evidence to back up that there were no leaders in the New Testament and no visible head of the Church Christ founded. Do you claim that Peter wasn't given any keys either? It seems odd that Jesus would praise peter for his faith, then put him down as a little stone, then give him the keys to the kingdom. You are only following after a protestant traidtion. "Peter can't possibly have been the leader of the Church" because that would mean.... Gasp....I've shown that there is ALOT of evidence that he was.
Well gee if Peter was just an elder then he wasn't even an apostle I suppose. No Peter calling himself fellow elder was a statement of humilty. Not a denial of his role in the Church.
Soldier,
To you bowing down is worship. Sorry, to God worship is a matter of the heart. David bowed before Bethsheba and Saul in HONOR. Not in worship. God looks at the heart. You think you can judge it apparently.
As for the priest scandal, your protestant Churches have as many or more child molesters as the Catholic Church has. Check out the work of Phil Jenkins or go to reformation.com. There is also a website called BaptistPedophiles. If you want to get in the mud we can talk about the KKK and protestantism or how 11-13% of protestant pastors have cheated on their wives according to Baptist and Lutheran studies. But all of this only shows that the Church is a Hospital for sinners more than a hotel for saints and we all need a savior. Can we at least agree on that. We know there are wolves among the sheet whatever branch of Christianity we are in. It's a poor tactic in this debate.
Well gee if Peter was just an elder then he wasn't even an apostle I suppose. No Peter calling himself fellow elder was a statement of humilty. Not a denial of his role in the Church.
You can't read very well. I clearly stated he was an apostle but saw himself as just one of the elders. Christ is the Head of the church at all times. Peter saw himself as a member of the Body of Christ. There is only one Head....Jesus.
I am not a Protestant as that would make me a Catholic in protest.
I have nothing to do with your pagan cult!! And if I was in a denomination that had just one child sex scandal that was covered up from the top the way it's been handled in my country Ireland by Catholic Bishops, then I would leave that Church, let alone thousands as is the case in Ireland.
Your defense of the indefensible shows your own moral corruption.
KJV Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
My the Lord Jesus Christ open you eyes and humble you heart. Amen
Good Soldier,
All I can say is yikes. John Jay Law School, a top tier law school in NYC, recently released a study that showed Protestant denominations have a higher rate of sexual misconduct than the RCC. In addition, many of the Protestant denominations do not even have the most basic reporting systems for clergy that act in such a manner. The Southern Baptist Convention was one of the examples. Does this mean that you would belong to no church?
The RCC has 500,000 members of the clergy. That some sickos will get in is not only likely, but guaranteed.
And let's face it. Christ's own hand-chosen guardians of the faith had one that gave Him up for cash and 11 that abandoned Him during His last night and evening on earth. 11 out of 12. On what basis would you demand the Catholic Church do better? Did you give up Jesus because of Judas? Then why should we give up the only Church that Christ created because of immoral priests?
Peter was being humble. Do you know that the Pope considers himself to be a servant to the clergy rather than just its "CEO"?
And, yes, Jesus is always the "head" of the Church. However, just as when any King, President, etc., is away, someone is appointed to act on his behalf and speak for the king. Did you know that Peter being appointed the "keys of the kingdom" is a direct reference to Isaiah 22?
Peter is the "Prime Minister", just as Eliakim became the prime minister in Isaiah, with the full power of the King behind him in his physical absence. Peter was given the same Keys to the Kingdom of the House of David that Eliakim possessed.
Soldier,
I did not in any way defend the horrible sins of priests who have molested children. Don't twist what I say. But again it sounds like you would have left the jewish faith of the Old Testament. They sacrificed children you know. Yet Christ was a Jew both by birth and by faith.
TarlsQtr,
Good to see you out here. God bless.
Back at you, Gerald. :-) I have to say that the arguments made by Mr. Pinto and his followers here are so far unimpressive. They are the same, tired, old lies about "worshipping" Mary, you cannot call a man "father", and a lack of understanding of what an "idol" is and what constitutes worship of one.
Jesus started one Church with Peter as its earthly head. Although I am sure that Mr. Pinto and his followers here love Jesus very much, they love the power of being their own pocket pope and declaring the RCC the "antichrist" even more. Really, until they show me where in the Bible it says "scripture alone is the basis for obtaining knowledge of salvation" (sola scriptura) they cannot competently comment on any matter of faith. Sola scriptura is the pillar built on sand that results in their many heresies.
I would love for them to point out the verse but they cannot because it is a 500 year old man-made tradition.
In any event, I will stick around for awhile and see if I get the verse. :-)
PS I am NOT looking for a verse that says scripture is Holy, good for teaching, infallible, or from God. All properly catechized Catholics already believe those things. I am looking for a verse that says ONLY scripture is all of those things.
Bob stated: "We are to call no man our father. "
I agree with that statement 100% as far as Jesus intended. Unfortunately, your interpretation of the scripture is lacking. Jesus is using hyperbole, which is easily proven in other scripture.
Acts 7:2-Stephen refers to "our father Abraham."
Romans 9:10-Paul refers to "our father Isaac."
I guess Paul and Stephen missed that memo?
Some more:
"Therefore I sent to you Timothy, my beloved and faithful child in the Lord, to remind you of my ways in Christ" (1 Cor. 4:17)
If Timothy is his child, what does that make Paul?
"To Timothy, my true child in the faith: grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord" (1 Tim. 1:2)
"To Timothy, my beloved child: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord" (2 Tim. 1:2).
"This charge I commit to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophetic utterances which pointed to you, that inspired by them you may wage the good warfare" (1 Tim 1:18)
"To Titus, my true child in a common faith: grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior" (Titus 1:4)
"I appeal to you for my child, Onesimus, whose father I have become in my imprisonment" (Philem. 10)
Either Paul really got around and made a lot of babies (Timothy, Titus, Onesimus), or these are not his biological children.
PS Do you call your dad "father?"
Good soldier stated: "KJV Mat 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
Your guilty by association." (regarding the pedophilia scandal.)
The above comment made me shudder, as Satan himself could have written it.
Now, in no way am I questioning Good Soldier's love for Jesus. However, his above comment is probably the LEAST Christian and most heretical statement I have ever seen by someone claiming to be a Christian.
Let me explain. That a Catholic can be "guilty by association" of the pedophilia scandal is the corollary doctrine of "collective salvation." (if associative guilt damns you then associative purity saves you) This means that my individual salvation is tied to to the actions of others in my collective. MY Jesus proclaimed an individual salvation, not one tied to what others do or do not do. Those priests will be judged INDIVIDUALLY for their actions and I will be judged individually for mine.
Can anyone tell me if Mr. Pinto or the other posters here also believe in this entirely unChristian concept? Or is this just the opinion of one poster who has obviously and tragically fallen away from Christ's teaching?
Gerald and his buddy remind me remind me of the Pharisees and Saduccees and Priests of Christ's day. Surely the Jews were God's chosen people and that was His temple and His city. But look at what Christ told them and look at what happened to that false religion now called Judaism. The Jews looked at their past and refused to come to the truth. Catholics are doing the same thing the Jews did in Christ's day..
The Pope is antichrist and the whole system of Catholicism is symbolized by the Whore riding the beast. If you were open to 'truth' we could discuss these things but you're only interested in defending the whore. And the whore will be thrown into the fire just like Jerusalem of old. Best to come out of her NOW. This will be my last post.
Bob,
I noticed that you chose not to address any of the actual points made, instead choosing to bear the same, tired, old false witnesses. That says more about the validity of your positions than I ever could.
Unfortunately, you cannot even be consistent in your theology. You have great disdain for the Pope but claim the same powers he was given by Jesus when you claim to have the "truth." Like it or not, you are claiming infallibility for your scriptural interpretation. This is another inherent flaw in Protestantism and sola scriptura. You all claim to be guided by the HS when interpreting scripture, yet their are tens of thousands of denominations all believing something different, all claiming to have the "truth" as if they are Pope, all claiming the same guidance.
Unfortunately, it can only be true if the HS is lying to most of you. In the Catholic Church, we do not teach that the Holy Spirit lies. It is a sad truth about Protestantism.
Yes Bob, we all like to see those we disagree with in the derelicts of the Bible. I see you in Korah and Dathan.
I've noticed that when one finds their position is an incorrect one but wishes to tenaciously hang on to "being right", they get personal. Makes me think of the movies where the gunman runs out of ammo then throws the gun. :)
The excellent thing about basing one's position on Biblical Truth, is that one never, ever runs out of ammo. :)
Thessalonian/ Group: Church Militant
http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/user/190-thessalonian/
geraldh@usfamily.net
Gerald you messed up and showed your hand!!
You are a Jesuit Co-Agitator and you've called in your backup to attack this forum.
So tell us wise illuminated ones!!! what oath did ye take in secret when ye joined your order?
Knights of Beelzebub, Legion of Mari's Demons ect...
2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
P.S.
TarlsQtr, I love the Jerusalem Cross it really suits you. Your a big Crusader casting down heretics and protestants on the Catholic Answers forum aren't you.
Nice job Good Soldier, thanks for tracking down these heretics. Here is the link to TarlsQtr's Catholic Answers Forums member page:
http://forums.catholic.com/member.php?u=45948
And here is Gerald's profile page as Good Soldier mentioned above:
http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/user/190-thessalonian/
Eph 5: 11
"Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them."
Good job, guys! Thanks for the work! :)
Soldier,
"You are a Jesuit Co-Agitator and you've called in your backup to attack this forum.
So tell us wise illuminated ones!!! what oath did ye take in secret when ye joined your order?
Knights of Beelzebub, Legion of Mari's Demons ect... "
And you are a liar and a slanderer. Ya bravo Darlene. Kudos to someone who bears false witness. Not that it would be bad to be a Jesuit except in the slanderous and derogatory way in which "good" soldier means it.
Ya, I am on phatmass so what. You are surprised since i am a Catholic. Boy is this stupid.
But God bless you both.
Darlene says "they get personal." with regard to my last comment to soldier then gives soldier and Dave kudos for their work in finding out that I am on phatmass, calling me a Jesuit and other derogatory remarks. Gee I think I said I was a few pages back. It's no secret. Darlene do you have a mirror handy.